Journals of the Senate
57 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2008, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 39th Parliament
Issue 57
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Biron, Brown, Bryden, Campbell, Carstairs, Champagne, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Di Nino, Dyck, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fortier, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Goldstein, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Keon, Kinsella, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Poy, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Segal, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Biron, Brown, Bryden, Campbell, Carstairs, Champagne, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, *De Bané, Di Nino, Dyck, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fortier, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Goldstein, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Keon, Kinsella, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Poy, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Segal, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
The Senate observed a minute of silence in memory of Corporal Michael Starker, whose tragic death occurred yesterday while serving his country in Afghanistan.
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-23, An Act to amend the Canada Marine Act, the Canada Transportation Act, the Pilotage Act and other Acts in consequence, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Introduction and First Reading of Senate Public Bills
The Honourable Senator Goldstein presented a Bill S-235, An Act concerning unsolicited commercial electronic messages.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Goldstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lovelace Nicholas, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
SPEAKER'S RULING
At the end of Question Period on May 1, 2008, Senator Fraser rose on a point of order relating to Senators' Statements. She had two specific concerns: that a statement made earlier in the day had not met the criteria of rule 22(4) and that its content may have violated rule 51. On a separate issue, she asked for guidance as to when, if ever, mention may be made to the absence of Senators.
Senators Comeau, Carstairs, Goldstein, Banks, Corbin, and Stratton all spoke to the matter, focussing on specific aspects of Senator Fraser's point of order. I thank all the Honourable Senators for their helpful contributions.
On the first point, I will read rule 22(4) in full.
When "Senators' Statements'' has been called, Senators may, without notice, raise matters they consider need to be brought to the urgent attention of the Senate. In particular, Senators' statements should relate to matters which are of public consequence and for which the rules and practices of the Senate provide no immediate means of bringing the matters to the attention of the Senate. In making such statements, a Senator shall not anticipate consideration of any Order of the Day and shall be bound by the usual rules governing the propriety of debate. Matters raised during this period shall not be subject to debate.
Senators must, usually, rely on their own understanding of the appropriate matters for statements. This is evident from the rule itself, which states that Senators may raise matters that "they consider'' to be urgent. The rule reflects the fact the Senate remains in large measure a self-regulating Chamber.
Senator Fraser's second concern was that the statement may have violated rule 51, which forbids "All personal, sharp or taxing speeches.'' Her objection concerned some of the language that was used.
Rule 51 seeks to preserve decorum and order. As I have noted in previous Rulings, the Senate functions best when its business proceeds in a courteous and dignified manner appropriate to the Chamber of sober second thought. I again underscore this point for Senators, and invite them to show care in how they frame remarks at all times during the sitting.
As a final point, Senator Fraser also sought guidance about restrictions on referring to the absence of a Senator. This is not the first time the topic has come up during the current Parliament. A Ruling of February 7, 2007, addressed this very issue. It stated that:
As to the matter of referring to Senators who may or may not be present, House of Commons Procedure and Practice by Marleau and Montpetit is clear, at page 188, that "the Speaker has traditionally discouraged Members from signalling the absence of another Member from the House because `there are many places that Members have to be in order to carry out all of the obligations that go with their office'.'' This is just as much the case for Senators. Similarly, Beauchesne's, at page 141, citation 481(c) of the sixth edition, prohibits reference to the presence or absence of specific Members.
Canadian practice discourages any reference to the absence of Senators. Practices in other countries, which were mentioned in discussion on the point of order, are not of direct relevance to the conduct of Senate business in this case.
Just as reference is not to be made to the absence of a Senator, members should also refrain from drawing attention to the arrival or departure of any Honourable Senator. We all understand that Senators have many legitimate competing obligations on their time.
As already noted, Honourable Senators are themselves to a great extent in control of how the Senate runs. We must share responsibility for this.
I would like also to take this occasion to address the concern raised by Senator Mercer yesterday. He made reference to rule 19, which deals with the demeanour of Senators in the Chamber. The purpose of this rule is to maintain an appropriate level of respect and dignity amongst Honourable Senators. The first item in the rule indicates that it is out of order for any Senator to pass between the Chair and the Senator who is then speaking. I urge all Honourable Senators to observe all the proprieties established in this rule 19 scrupulously.
In conclusion, I wish to thank all Honourable Senators for their comments. I once again encourage all Honourable Senators to reflect on the manner in which we conduct ourselves during the sitting, to ensure that we preserve the useful and respectful exchange of ideas and information that is the hallmark of the Senate.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Consideration of the amendments by the House of Commons to Bill S-215, An Act to protect heritage lighthouses:
1. Preamble, page 1: Add after line 15 the following:
"AND WHEREAS it is important to provide access to heritage lighthouses in order for people to understand and appreciate the contribution of those lighthouses to Canada's maritime heritage;''
2. Clause 2, page 2: Replace line 9 with the following:
"this Act, and includes any related building''
3. Clause 2, page 2: Replace lines 19 to 28 with the following:
""related building'', in relation to a heritage lighthouse, means any building on the site on which the lighthouse is situated that contributes to the heritage character of the lighthouse.''
4. Clause 6, page 3: Replace line 6 with the following:
"include any related building that the Min-''
5. Clause 7, page 3: Replace line 29 with the following:
"whether any related buildings should be''
6. Clause 11, page 4: Replace line 19 with the following:
"lated building should be included in the des-''
7. Clause 16, page 5: Replace line 23 with the following:
"house and whether any related building''.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Spivak:
That the Senate concur in the amendments made by the House of Commons to this bill without amendment; and
That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 2 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill S-234, An Act to establish an assembly of the aboriginal peoples of Canada and an executive council.
The Honourable Senator Gill moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Champagne, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 5 to 14 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 8 (inquiry), 85 (motion), 14 (inquiry), 69, 88, 68 (motions), 16 (inquiry), 102, 96, 79, 78 (motions) and 4 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Di Nino, calling the attention of the Senate to the voting age in Canada for federal elections and referendums.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cowan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 12, 9, 3 and 7 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Segal, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon:
That whenever the Senate is sitting, the proceedings of the upper chamber, like those of the lower one, be televised, or otherwise audio-visually recorded, so that those proceedings can be carried live or replayed on CPAC, or any other television station, at times that are convenient for Canadians;
And, on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Banks, seconded by the Honourable Senator Segal, that the motion be amended by deleting all words after the first "That'' and replacing them by the following:
"the Senate approve in principle the installation of equipment necessary to the broadcast-quality audio-visual recording of its proceedings and other approved events in the Senate Chamber and in no fewer than four rooms ordinarily used for meetings by Committees of the Senate;
That for the purposes set out in the following paragraph, public proceedings of the Senate and of its Committees be recorded by this equipment, subject to policies, practices and guidelines approved from time to time by the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration ("the Committee'');
That selected and edited proceedings categorized according to subjects of interest be prepared and made available for use by any television broadcaster or distributor of audio-visual programmes, subject to the terms specified in any current or future agreements between the Senate and that broadcaster or distributor;
That such selected proceedings also be made available on demand to the public on the Parliamentary Internet;
That the Senate engage by contract a producer who shall, subject only to the direction of the Committee, make the determination of the programme content of the selected, edited and categorized proceedings of the Senate and of its Committees;
That equipment and personnel necessary for the expert selection, editing, preparation and categorization of broadcast-quality proceedings be secured for these purposes; and
That the Committee be instructed to take measures necessary to the implementation of this motion.''.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 11 (inquiry) was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Segal, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon:
WHEREAS the Canadian public has never been consulted on the structure of its government (Crown, Senate and House of Commons)
AND WHEREAS there has never been a clear and precise expression by the Canadian public on the legitimacy of the Upper House since the constitutional agreement establishing its existence
AND WHEREAS a clear and concise opinion might be obtained by putting the question directly to the electors by means of a referendum
THAT the Senate urge the Governor in Council to obtain by means of a referendum, pursuant to section 3 of the Referendum Act, the opinion of the electors of Canada on whether the Senate should be abolished; and
THAT a message be sent to the House of Commons requesting that House to unite with the Senate for the above purpose.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cowan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 76 (motion), 10 (inquiry) and 3 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Keon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin:
That, pursuant to rule 95(3)(a), the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology be authorized to sit on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 and Wednesday, May 21, 2008 in St. John's, Newfoundland, for the purposes of its study of population health, even though the Senate may then be adjourned for a period exceeding one week.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Summaries of the Corporate Plan and the Operating and Capital Budget for 2008-2009 to 2012-2013 of the Business Development Bank of Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-578.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 3:36 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The name of the Honourable Senator De Bané substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Dawson (May 6).
Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples
The name of the Honourable Senator Gustafson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Meighen (May 6).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The name of the Honourable Senator Gustafson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Nolin (May 7).
Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The name of the Honourable Senator Massicotte substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Grafstein (May 6).